K - Bourbon Whisky and Contentious Content Warning

Tue Jun 13 12:05:23 CEST 2006

Thomas.

Yup! What you say seems right to me. But it is not the core point that I am trying to chase down. Which is, do the casks/staves, known to be from the seven American whiskies that did not have additives, have an unambigious audit trail separate from casks/staves that previously held bourbon with additives? 

Of interest as it relates to the products for the great unwashed, knocking back their blended Johhnie Walkers, and Bells this and that, trailing their knuckles on the ground as they stagger from pillar to post after a hard Saturday bevying and scoffing soggy fish and chips. Do the really big mass production processes know the exact provenance of each cask? And even if they do, what practical effect on filling processes does this have at the Caledonian end of the whisky trail? 

And just for a moment, a pause to ponder on our lovely end of the market. If it says "Bourbon" casked, does anyone know if this means casked from one of the magnificent seven, or could the cask also perhaps be from the dirty two and a half dozen?

Questions! Questions!.

Another one has just this very minute ocurred to me. When the marketeers assure us that the cask was "Bourbon", what do they REALLY mean? Which of the Super Seven come under that word?

Ooooh! A general, non-K, non-Kontroversial Komment topic !!

Go for it, lads.

Uncle Ralph

----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Sundblom <thomas at SUNDBLOM.SE>
Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 8:42 am
Subject: Re: K - Bourbon Whisky and Contentious Content Warning

> Ralph.
> 
> When the a cask of bourbon is emptied, the cask will be knocked 
> down and transported to Scotland. Since each stave is numbered 
> it's easy for the coppers in Scotland to asseble them again. The 
> mixing might be done when they take staves from 5-6 barrels to 
> make 4 hogsheads. At that stage new butt ends must be made too.
> 
> But not all casks are knocked down. Quite a few is shipped as they 
> are, and even conataing a small amount of bourbon in them. That is 
> to prevent the wood from drying completely. This is only done one 
> quite young casks. A dry cask can easily soak up 4-5 liters of 
> spirit when they are filled with Scottish newmake. Compare this 
> with sherry butts that usually contains 5-10 liters of sherry when 
> they are shipped from Jerez.
> 
> Skål
> 
> __________________________________________________________
> Thomas Sundblom
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ralph Katzenell" <ralphoosh at 012.NET.IL>
> To: <MALTS-L at LISTS.UNI-KARLSRUHE.DE>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 6:47 AM
> Subject: Re: K - Bourbon Whisky and Contentious Content Warning
> 
> 
> > Greetings Brian.
> > 
> > Nope. Don't think I've lost the plot yet. The issue referred to 
> here is not the casks the Bourbon is put into,  but what happens 
> to the casks (and/or staves) from the various sub-varieties after 
> they have been used and are in transit from Bourbon use to Scotch use.
> > 
> > And the question is: What does happen? Who knows? Who is in 
> charge of QA around here?
> > 
> > UR
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Fredrika Gross <fredrika at PACBELL.NET>
> > Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 3:56 am
> > Subject: Re: K - Bourbon Whisky and Contentious Content Warning
> > 
> > > Ralph,
> > > 
> > > You were going OK until you jumped to the assumption that 
> casks 
> > > are "mixed
> > > willy-nilly".
> > > 
> > > Chapter 4 of the BAM shows that Bourbon (among other whisky 
> > > varieties) must
> > > be stored only in "charred new oak containers".  Bourbon can't 
> be 
> > > stored in
> > > a cask that had been previously used.
> > > 
> > > Brian
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: MALTS-L at RZ.UNI-KARLSRUHE.DE [MALTS-L at RZ.UNI-
> KARLSRUHE.DE] On
> > > Behalf Of Ralph Katzenell
> > > Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 2:47 AM
> > > To: MALTS-L at LISTS.UNI-KARLSRUHE.DE
> > > Subject: K - Bourbon Whisky and Contentious Content Warning
> > > 
> > > Greetings All.
> > > The wheels of research turn slowly.
> > > I am trying to find out what they can put in Bourbon. THe list was
> > > definately broadcasting the message that the clear, known 
> answere 
> > > was an
> > > emphatic "Nay". The best link I was given or could find is : 
> The 
> > > BeverageAlcohol Manual. 
> > > htttp://www.ttb.gov/publications/alctob_pub/bevalcmanspirits/
> > > Chapter 4 defines the whisky.
> > > Chapter 7 Coloring/Blending/Flavoring materials, wherein we 
> learn 
> > > on pages
> > > 7-9 to 7-11 that recognised classes include Whisky (Bourbon), 
> Whisky> > (Straight Bourbon), Whisky (Straight Corn) , Whisky 
> (Straight 
> > > Malt), Whisky
> > > (Straight Rye Malt), Whisky (Straight Rye) and Whisky 
> (Straight). 
> > > To all of
> > > these the addition of HCFBM (Harmless 
> Coloring/Flavoring/Blending 
> > > Materials)is forbidden.
> > > Also listed are 28 named sub-varieties of the above where up 
> to at 
> > > least2.5% of HCFBM is permitted and one (Whisky Sour) in which 
> > > more than 2.5% is
> > > permitted.
> > > 
> > > And no, my "e" key has not dropped down a worm-hole in the 
> fabric of
> > > space-time. The document spells it "Whisky".
> > > 
> > > I seems reasonable to assume that casks from the industry are 
> mixed> > willy-nilly. So it looks, on first evidence, that the 
> "Whisky is 
> > > not kosher"
> > > group have it right, technically.
> > > 
> > > Hmmmmmmm.
> > > 
> > > Somewhere, out there, is a fella that really actually knows 
> how 
> > > casks are
> > > bought, registered, gathered, treated, stacked, selected and 
> > > transported.Where, o where are you?
> > > 
> > > Uncle Ralph
> > > 
> > > --------------  https://www.lists.uni-karlsruhe.de/  ----------
> ----
> > > 
> > > --------------  https://www.lists.uni-karlsruhe.de/  ----------
> ----
> > > 
> > 
> > --------------  https://www.lists.uni-karlsruhe.de/  ------------
> --
> > 
> 
> --------------  https://www.lists.uni-karlsruhe.de/  --------------
> 

--------------  https://www.lists.uni-karlsruhe.de/  --------------